Dialogues · Chapter
Book V explained
Socrates is pressed by Adeimantus, Glaucon, and Thrasymachus to explain the community of women and children among the guardians.
What happens
Socrates is pressed by Adeimantus, Glaucon, and Thrasymachus to explain the community of women and children among the guardians. He distinguishes true philosophers as lovers of the vision of truth, not mere lovers of sights or sounds, and argues that the ideal state requires common education, common children, and shared duties between men and women in war and peace. He defends the happiness of the guardians, comparing their life to that of Olympic victors, and insists that the state's unity depends on the guardians' harmony.
Themes in this chapter
Knowledge and Ignorance
Socrates distinguishes true philosophers as lovers of the vision of truth, contrasting them with those who only perceive particular beautiful things and lack knowledge of absolute beauty.
Education and Virtue
The chapter discusses the common education of guardians and the importance of training children by exposing them to the realities of war and civic life.
War, Peace, and Military Virtue
Socrates describes how guardians will go on expeditions together, take their children to war, and share military duties, emphasizing unity and collective defense.
Characters to notice
- Socrates
Leads the discussion on the nature of philosophers and the community of women and children; defends the ideal state against objections.
- Glaucon
Challenges Socrates to explain the community of women and children; agrees with the resolution to press Socrates for an answer.
- Adeimantus
Accuses Socrates of being lazy and trying to skip an important part of the story; insists on a full explanation of the family life of the guardians.
- Thrasymachus
Supports the demand for Socrates to explain the community of women and children; declares all are agreed on the need for an answer.
- Polemarchus
Whispers to Adeimantus, initiating the challenge to Socrates to continue the discussion.
Key passages
“And may we not say of the philosopher that he is a lover, not of a part of wisdom only, but of the whole?”
The philosopher desires all wisdom, not just a portion of it.
Socrates defines the philosopher as a lover of complete wisdom.
“Whereas he who has a taste for every sort of knowledge and who is curious to learn and is never satisfied, may be justly termed a philosopher?”
A person who is insatiably curious about all kinds of knowledge deserves to be called a philosopher.
Socrates proposes that the true philosopher is a lover of all learning.
“The lovers of sounds and sights, I replied, are, as I conceive, fond of fine tones and colours and forms and all the artificial products that are made out of them, but their mind is incapable of seeing or loving absolute beauty.”
Those who love beautiful sounds and sights appreciate particular beautiful things but cannot perceive or love beauty itself.
Socrates distinguishes between lovers of appearances and true philosophers who grasp the Forms.
“But take the case of the other, who recognises the existence of absolute beauty and is able to distinguish the idea from the objects which participate in the idea, neither putting the objects in the place of the idea nor the idea in the place of the objects—is he a dreamer, or is he awake? He is wide awake.”
The person who knows absolute beauty and can separate the Form from its instances is fully awake and has knowledge.
Socrates contrasts the dreamer who mistakes copies for reality with the philosopher who knows the Forms.
“And from all these evils they will be delivered, and their life will be blessed as the life of Olympic victors and yet more blessed.”
The guardians will be freed from petty troubles and will live a life even more blessed than that of Olympic champions.
Socrates argues that the guardians' life is superior to that of celebrated athletes.
