# To (Or Against) a Person Who Was One of Those Who Were Not Valued (Esteemed) by Him explained — Discourses

> Chapter companion for Discourses by Epictetus.

## What happens

Epictetus challenges a person who complains he never receives answers, arguing that both speaking and hearing require skill. He emphasizes that without understanding one's own nature, purpose, and the world, a person cannot benefit from philosophical discourse. Using the example of Agamemnon and Achilles, he shows how ignorance of what is profitable leads to conflict and error. He concludes that the listener must show himself worthy and prepared to hear, or else the speaker cannot be roused.

## Themes in this chapter

### Rationality and Self-Examination

Epictetus insists that one must know who they are and what is good before they can benefit from philosophical discourse.

### Desire and Aversion

The chapter discusses how ignorance leads to misdirected desires and actions, as seen in the quarrel between Agamemnon and Achilles.

## Character check-ins

### Epictetus

The speaker who questions the unnamed person about the art of speaking and hearing, and uses examples from Homer to illustrate ignorance.

### Agamemnon

Mentioned as an example of ignorance of what is profitable, quarreling with Achilles over Chryseis.

### Achilles

Mentioned as an example of ignorance of what is profitable, quarreling with Agamemnon over a girl.

### Hector

Mentioned as the enemy Achilles should be fighting instead of quarreling with Agamemnon.

### Ajax

Mentioned as a strong warrior, compared to the listener's claim of strength.

### Ulysses

Mentioned as a skilled orator whom Achilles silenced.

## Key lines

> Do you think that as there is an art in anything else, so there is also an art in speaking, and that he who has the art, will speak skillfully, and he who has not, will speak unskillfully?

Epictetus asks whether speaking is an art that requires skill, just like any other craft.

_He establishes that both speaking and hearing are skills that can be learned and practiced._

> He who knows not who he is, and for what purpose he exists, and what is this world, and with whom he is associated, and what things are the good and the bad, and the beautiful and the ugly, and who neither understands discourse nor demonstration, nor what is true nor what is false, and who is not able to distinguish them, will neither desire according to nature nor turn away nor move towards, nor intend (to act), nor assent nor dissent, nor suspend his judgment: to say all in a few words, he will go about dumb and blind, thinking that he is somebody, but being nobody.

A person ignorant of their own nature, purpose, and the world cannot act or think rationally, and lives in delusion.

_This is a core Stoic statement on the necessity of self-knowledge and philosophical understanding._

> When you would listen to a philosopher, do not say to him, 'You tell me nothing;' but only show yourself worthy of hearing or fit for hearing; and you will see how you will move the speaker.

If you want to learn from a philosopher, prepare yourself to listen properly, and the philosopher will be inspired to speak.

_Epictetus places responsibility on the listener to be receptive and engaged._

## Links

- HTML: https://www.betterreads.online/discover/discourses_se/chapters/xxiv-to-or-against-a-person-who-was-one-of-those-who-were-not-valued-esteemed-by-him
- Book: https://www.betterreads.online/discover/discourses_se
- All chapters: https://www.betterreads.online/discover/discourses_se/chapters